Magic Johnson & Isiah Thomas | 1-on-1 Interview (Players Only)[FULL]

Isaiah Thomas is one of the greatest point guards to ever play this game.

Not because he's just one of my best friends, but because he is.

He shakes, bakes, hipsy-do, put in the hoop, shoot the jumper, play defense, and he's my baby.

Your turn.

I learned it all from him.

Two guys out here on this quarter, best of friends, Magic Johnson and Isaiah Thomas.

There it is.

It's over, and the most valuable player is Magic Johnson.

He starts at center, plays forward and guard, and leads the Los Angeles Lakers to a world championship.

Bird and Magic have been the only two guys basically competing for championship.

You know, it's a mental understanding that they have of the game.

How good's this guy?

Well, you know, once Isaiah gets into his rhythm, he's unstoppable, basically.

side, way down to the floor.

You hear Isaiah's name mentioned with the real heavy ones, the Magics, the Jordans.

Magic Johnson putting on a show.

Scores with two.

It's like we all strive to be like perfect.

If he wasn't there, not only as a friend, but as a competitor, I don't know if I would have gotten all out of myself that I think I've gotten.

I'm going to take the shot.

He's going to take the shot.

I'm going to try to kill him.

He's going to try to kill me, and I love it.

Isaiah Thomas and Magic Johnson, they said, we're going to touch and we're going to kiss and we're going to congratulate.

And when Magic tries to drive on the lane, I'm going to be right on his elbows.

A very gracious moment here as Magic Johnson has come inside the Pistons' locker room.

Your longtime friend, Isaiah Thomas.

He had a chance, and he don't have to talk to me about it to find out what it's like now.

Now he knows.

I said, yeah.

Come on in, man.

Come on.

Come on.

I went through my boy's stuff.

I said, yeah.

Come on in.

The friendship is forever.

So I might as well get the quote out there.

Magic Johnson writes, Isaiah killed his own chances when it came to the Olympics.

Nobody on that team wanted to play with him.

Michael Jordan didn't want to play with him.

And these are Magic's words.

Scottie Pippen wanted no part of him.

Bird wasn't pushing for him.

Karl Malone didn't want him.

Who was saying we need this guy?

Nobody.

When this HIV announcement came and the reaction of all these people around him, people that he thought were his friends, to back away and to shy away from him, and then to find out that Isaiah Thomas, the one guy he thought he was going to be able to count on through all this, to find out that he was questioning Irvin's sexuality, how he got this disease, and questioning people about it, it was devastating to him.

I had no role in starting any kind of rumor, and I'm disappointed that he believes that.

And what's your relationship with him today?

Well, he said we don't have one, so I guess we do.

I hope as two African-American men...

that we do have the compassion and understanding to one day come together as two brothers.

If Magic Johnson needs me, I'll still be there for him.

You want me in the front or the back?

You know, when he and I really sit down and just start talking and kicking it, you know, we're never at a loss for words.

So the conversation will go where it needs to go, and I think we'll figure out how to make it work.

Room of the Lakers.

Hello.

I am good.

How you doing?

Good.

How are you?

I'm good.

I'm Isaiah.

Nice to meet you.

Alana.

It's a pleasure to meet you, Alana.

Please do, thank you.

I wanted to see the court.

You know I'm gonna have to go shoot a jet point in that gym now.

Just to say I shot one.

See, I knew you was gonna have a towel.

I told Lynn, I said, when I leave, you know I got dressed, right?

No, I got dressed.

I got dressed, man.

And I was like, how's this?

She's like, no, you can't wear that.

Come on, hold this for me.

I think they want you there.

You're correct, sir.

You're correct.

Not just what you know as a... Look at you got the socks on.

I'm trying to, you know, do something.

We both got to do what we do.

I was way ahead of my time.

I say, now they're wearing mismatched shoes.

Remember?

I had to mismatch shoes.

I was like, come on, this is going to be the style.

He was like, nah, nah, nah, nah.

Now they're doing all that.

Now they're doing all that.

Yeah, I was like, come on now.

It's funny, like...

You coming to interview me Let me know when y'all ready

You know, most people don't know how much you really love baseball, right?

And I'm going to go all the way back to Lansing.

I know this is supposed to be a basketball interview.

I'm going to go back to the softball team that you had in Lansing.

That's right.

Traveling team.

Traveling team.

And so Mark and I would be like, this month.

Or he's just doing it for his friends.

He's just doing it for Dar and everybody else.

Then you would come out with your uniform on and everything.

I'm like...

I was like, this dude really going to the baseball game.

So just for everybody watching, tell them how you really got started in baseball.

Exactly.

I would go home every summer after finishing our season with the Lakers, and I would get on that team, play either first or third base.

We know.

You would come home after the finals, right?

After the finals, right?

Win or lose.

You know, the next two days later, you got on a baseball uniform talking about, come on, man, we got to get this win.

Hey, we traveled all over the state of Michigan.

We traveled around the country.

I even brought that team out here to play the Jackson.

People don't know that.

We played against Randy Jackson, Jermaine Jackson, Jackie Jackson, and their softball team.

And we had a big park full of people.

They couldn't believe it.

And Michael, they thought, where's Michael at?

Well, Michael didn't play.

He didn't want to come out.

But we went to their house afterwards.

Him and I went on tour with the Jacksons.

We also did dates with Prince.

Yep, yep.

I tried to surprise you today.

I tried to call Jackie to see if he would come over.

That was going to be amazing.

Because, you know, when we toured with the Jacksons, and we were just, I mean, we went from city to city.

I mean, we knew every song.

We knew how they came on and when they went off.

And they were...

but nobody like michael jackson nobody nobody but you know watching them perform right and i don't know if it i don't know what it did for you but i would just tell you what it did for me just seeing how they had the audience and seeing how they connected with the audience

It made me realize, like, there's a bigger place to go than just playing basketball and making people say, ooh, and ah.

Like you used to say, we say, man, Michael Jackson, he could just tell people, okay, now I want you to, like, you know, hold up the light and get down on the floor.

And they would do it.

And they would do it.

20, 30, 50,000.

We in stadiums, sometimes 60, 70,000.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

So that connection, like, and you had that with the fans out here.

Mm-hmm.

Like...

You know, look, you know, you can, you can point, I mean, and you just had the Laker fans, California, like in the palm of your hand.

How did that feel at such a young age?

And by the way, how did you handle it?

Well, I think, you know,

You only can do that if you excel, right, at your craft and at your game.

My whole thing, just like yours, was to win.

I just wanted to win.

And... And everything.

And everything.

Tell him all my secrets.

And everything.

I'm like, Mark and I, I mean, me, Herb, and Dominique, we'd be like, really?

Really?

Herb, you going to call that foul?

Yes.

It's four to four, right?

You would get all the way to the basket, see if it go in.

Ah, that's foul.

That's foul.

That's right.

That's right.

I want the win.

Yeah.

But see, now, you just said it right.

Herb Williams.

Mark Aguirre, Dominique Wilkins, yourself.

Now, I'm older than all four.

So my job as the bigger brother was to teach you guys how to win.

You were a great teacher.

You know?

So that was a part of it, right?

And so just like Reggie Miller, same thing at UCLA.

I used to call all those styles.

He used to get mad.

He stomped mad.

I said, well, you got to do something about it then.

Don't let it get to 4-4.

Right.

And us having the ball.

Then you don't have to worry about that.

Right.

So then he's like, oh, I get it now.

Right.

I was a gym rat.

I loved to win.

I loved to play.

Michael Jackson loved to perform for the people.

Yeah.

He was a perfectionist.

It made you and I become a perfectionist, watching Michael Jackson at his craft.

It made us also work harder to become great.

Yeah.

Because Michael Jackson was great.

Yeah.

Right?

And we would be watching him rehearse.

No, no, that's not good enough.

Exactly.

And we'd be like, what was wrong with that?

You and I, we'd be up dancing.

And then he'd stop.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

You're off a little bit.

And we were like, man, they sound great.

And remember, he used to sing how he wanted them to play.

Yes, yes.

That's what blew me away.

Every instrument, he can vocalize it.

He can vocalize.

I want you to ding, dong, dong, dong, dong, dong, dong.

And you and I were sitting up there, did he just sound like a guitar?

Remember, he had that big, long mirror, so he'd be practicing his moves and everything.

And we'd be up there practicing them.

Yeah.

the moonwalk like we gon' moonwalk like Michael, you know?

But it gave us something to hang on to, to go after.

this man is such a detailed perfectionist all the way down to the little things.

So it made me go back as a basketball player to go all the details, practice the right way.

And we pushed each other to be great, right?

And so my whole thing was, if we went and we played and we won and played the game the right way, then we would have the fans cheering and going crazy.

It's over.

The Boston Celtics are the NBA World Champions in a grueling seven-game series with the Los Angeles Lakers.

Y'all lose in Boston, and we come back to L.A., and I'm going to sing this song, and I'm going to tell you if you remember the year.

Just once...

Can we figure out what we keep doing wrong?

Right?

Uh-huh.

Y'all lost that year.

Mm-hmm.

And I'll never forget we... Y'all was having y'all end-of-year meetings, and y'all had a luncheon or something somewhere, and I'm there...

And it was a bad loss y'all had to the Celtics.

And, you know, you cried the whole night, you know.

You know, we sitting in the hotel room just watching you, like, just, I mean, cry hard.

And we didn't say nothing.

Like, wasn't no words, right?

And I'm sitting there and I'm watching all this, watching you go through that pain, that hurt.

And for whatever reason, that song...

And y'all was all like, you know, singing it, you know, and that summer we working out and everything.

Came back the following year and won it.

Right.

So my point is, and the question that I want to ask is, through all the ups and downs, how did you keep getting up and coming back?

Pain of losing.

And that year, that was 84.

know i had excelled every every time state high school championship college championship first year 80 82 i never failed you know and it was my fault that we lost that championship that was my fault i turned the ball over made some bad decisions

And, man, I cried, cried, not only that night and the next night, but also all summer.

All summer.

Yeah.

I mean, and...

Stayed in the house a lot, too.

Yeah.

We was worried because you got to remember, like, okay, me, Mark, we had never seen you fail.

Yeah, that's right.

So it was like, man, magic lost.

That was like, how could that happen?

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

But to watch you...

just dig, you know, internally.

And, you know, you was quiet, you know, you was just going.

And then you came back the next year.

I was hoping that we'd get him again.

to boston and wins the world title and magic johnson who finds redemption tommy as you said a year later one long year and redemption for one magic johnson now you can tell us just how much it bothered you a year ago when they said you choked in the championship series well it bothered me you know anytime you make mistakes to probably lose a championship it bothers you you know no question about it see self-evaluation is the hardest thing

To critique yourself, to check off your weaknesses, that's hard for any person to do.

So I had to go deep inside myself and say, hey, I'm not as good as I thought I was.

I got to go back to the lab.

I got to go to work.

And so we went to work.

We went to work that whole summer.

Yeah, you went to work on us.

And not just you two, either, three.

I was trying to go to work on everybody.

And all that pain, I put it on everybody else.

It was like, yo, man, hey, this ain't the final.

I mean, you remember that time when you and Mark almost got it, too.

Exactly, exactly.

Wait, so we playing, right?

And I tell you, remember this.

So we up at, what is it, Genesis?

Uh-huh.

And y'all going back and forth, y'all going back and forth.

And you called foul.

Yep.

And Mark's like, nah, that ain't no foul.

And you're like, nah, that's a foul.

And then y'all go back for about, like, you know, maybe about 30 seconds.

And then I hear Mark say the magic word, mother.

I was like, hey, hey, hey.

Hey, y'all.

But you was getting ready to fight.

Like...

And I'm looking at you like, this dude think he like your garden.

You know, man, it's just fun.

But every game, every practice.

But that's the pain.

That's the pain of losing and also have to really come back and be better.

And the pain caused me to get into an argument with one of my closest friends, right?

Because it wasn't that game.

It wasn't that moment.

It was about the Celtics.

And it's about me not performing to my ability in that seven-game series.

But...

The good thing about us, we understood that.

So once the games were over, well, we're going to get something to eat.

Yeah.

Let's go get this tuna milk.

Exactly.

Let's go get this sandwich.

And we're going to sit up all night.

We're going to sing songs.

And then, you know, we're going to get up in the morning, go back to that gym.

I had you guys to help me through that pain.

Right.

Right?

And that's what you need.

You need your friends.

You need your support system.

to bring you through something so difficult and so hard.

Not just losing, not just I didn't perform well, but also I lost to Larry Bird.

Yeah.

So it was double, you know.

So I'm looking at this dude, you know, champagne, talking trash, you know, and then tragic magic headlines in all the newspaper.

And so I had to say, okay, I got to go to work.

And then God placed me in a position to go back in 85 and let's play them again.

and beat them.

So you and I, see, our careers parallel each other's because, you know, we thought we were gonna play you guys, right?

And then we end up playing them.

And you was Tragic Magic, and then I became Tragic Isaiah because you dribbled out the clock, made the mistake, and then I threw the ball away.

And the only way I was able to come back through all of that is because I had watched you go through it.

And I had watched you persevere.

And learning how you described that pain and how you just kept going and kept going.

So then I said to myself, I got to get up.

But I don't know if I would have ever had the strength to get up

had I not been able to recall the memory of you getting up.

You know what I'm saying?

That's why we were in each other's lives.

It was a reason.

Right.

Right.

I knew your struggle.

That's why I didn't say nothing.

I was mad.

I know.

I know you were.

But I was so hurt.

Yeah.

Yeah, well.

You Isaiah.

I just like you.

I had never made that mistake.

That's what I'm saying.

Your level of excellence is so high.

And then we hold ourselves accountable.

So we don't need a coach to hold us accountable.

We can hold ourselves accountable.

And that's who we were.

But what people didn't realize about us is that we put so much love and time in this game.

Yeah.

I'm just set this one right here in front of us.

And we're going to talk about this joy and pain.

And that's what it was.

Joy and pain.

Like sunshine and rain.

Anybody wanted to take us, we went to Burrell, Alaska.

We went to Borough of Alaska.

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

I'm going to tell them this.

I'm going to tell them this.

So anybody that know, if you go to Borough of Alaska, it's the last place before Russia.

So you got to go across into the Russian airspace to turn back around to land in Borough.

Remember them two fighter jets came up beside us, the Russian fighter jets?

And we were like...

They going to shoot us down?

Oh, man.

So no, they just made sure.

The pilot was like, no, y'all be cool.

They just making sure we turn.

I said, oh my god.

We thought we were going to be dead.

And then we land.

We land.

Right?

And the sun don't go down.

Yeah.

One hour.

One hour.

What kind of place is this?

I know.

23 hours.

The sun only goes down for an hour.

But we had to do the counting.

We had to do the counting.

We're going to get that money.

Yeah, we're going to get the money.

We're going to get that money.

They were paying.

We going.

All right.

How much?

We're going to get that money.

Where are we going?

Where is this?

Alaska?

All right.

What time?

OK. We'll be there.

We put on a good show, too.

Oh, man, come on.

We put on a good show.

Them kids still remember that, man.

We had a great run, a lot of pride.

We did so much for basketball, not only around this country, but for the Rust Belt and the city of Detroit.

And I love those guys, and they accomplished a lot.

It's a heavy burden to carry around for two or three years.

Most championship teams stay together a long time.

What happened?

Because we thinking now, y'all is about to go on a run, right?

Back to back, and everybody young.

So I never got a chance to ask you, and everybody else want to know too, what happened that it just broke up?

I had wrist surgery.

Okay.

After we won in 90, I'm just...

I'm possessed now, right?

Yeah, because it was your league then.

Yeah.

We were fading.

The Celtics had faded.

And what I was saying to myself is, okay, y'all went back-to-back.

We went back-to-back.

Celtics didn't go back-to-back.

So now it's like, okay, now we can three-peat.

Yeah.

Right?

We can do something that the Celtics didn't do, the Lakers didn't do.

Right?

Right.

I had that gym in my house, and I shot every single day.

And you know how we used to practice.

I know, I know.

And I was shooting 14, 15 hours a day.

I would eat, shoot, eat, shoot, and maybe about 10 games, 15 games into the season,

My wrist, I wore my wrist out.

Just overshooting.

So I went to the doctor, right?

Doctor looked at it and he's like, we gotta do surgery on your wrist.

I was like,

It'll be all right.

He's just spraying.

Let's put some tape on him.

You know he'll be all right.

And he's like, no, no, no, no.

Not this time.

He said, if you bend this wrist one more time, it ain't never coming back.

So they cut my wrist open.

And I missed maybe 52 games in 91.

Then came back for the playoffs.

Won the same.

But we get to the Eastern Conference finals.

And, you know, back in our day, you know, the wounded, you kill the wounded.

And Jordan and Pippa and them, every time they saw my wrist, they was... And that's what happened.

And then it was their turn.

It was their turn, and it was that good.

But you taught them how to win.

Well...

The Pistons taught them how to win.

No, I'm saying it.

You don't have to say it.

I'm saying it because that's the truth.

You know, you learn from other teams how to win.

And I still say this to this day.

If my wrist wasn't messed up,

Hard to get them.

Just like you said, if your hamstring weren't messed up, you would have got us, right?

And probably would have.

And that's what everybody should think as winners.

That's how it goes.

That's how it goes.

You were great teachers for us.

And we were supposed to dominate, but injuries happen.

Yeah.

That's part of it.

I tell you, it's incredible that we were with each other when we both lost, when we both made mistakes, when we both said, we got to go to another level, right?

And then we end up playing against each other.

1988.

Isaiah and Magic.

Bill, what kind of game can you anticipate here?

One thing for sure, they won't be talking to each other once that ball goes up in the air.

Kyrie, they think all the dudes dribbling now.

That was you already then.

That was you.

When we on tour, some dude thought he could guard you.

You said, what?

Come here.

Back then, if you did all that in the NBA, they'd beat you up.

Exactly.

They'd be like, hey, don't do that to me.

Exactly.

Crossover, the things that you could do, you had Tim Hardaway's crossover.

Kyrie, what he doing?

Steph, what he doing?

I was telling people, I said, man, stop.

Stop.

I saw a dude do all of that.

And then did it against my Lakers on one leg.

Who scores 25 points on one leg in the fourth quarter?

Someone who was inspired by you.

In the championship.

In the championship.

No, really, it's like we never really got a chance to...

to have this conversation.

The one thing I admired, we was tough and we was having our way with y'all, right?

So we go back to the Silverdome.

And Riley, I think, issued the challenge to you personally.

Imagine you gotta do something about Isaiah, y'all friends, y'all kissing, dah, dah, dah, dah, right?

And I'll never forget, I was coming down the lane

And you ain't even go for the ball.

You just like, boom, knock me out of the air.

Thomas, hit by Magic Johnson.

Look who he pushes.

His best buddy.

I turned around and I pushed you.

And got up swinging.

You just didn't push.

You got up swinging.

Well, I should have.

But you're swinging up.

Yeah.

But at the same time, it's like I hated it.

But I admired it because it was like, if you didn't do that, your team was dead.

And we knew it.

And you knew it.

Your team was dead.

They weren't going to respond.

But you responded with the physicality on me.

And that inspired your team.

And it took me a long time to understand, like,

You had to make a choice between your Lakers and our friendship.

And at that time, right, I'm still trying to get one of these, right?

You know how to get them.

And even though I had been with all of you, you was like, it's the Lakers first.

And I couldn't understand that.

And emotionally, that like really hurt me, right?

But it also taught me like, hey, you gotta get it.

It's about being a champion.

And if you ain't willing to go

Go after it, you ain't gonna win it.

Right.

Well, we have to remember, you guys were young, athletic, physical, tough, hungry.

Yeah.

And that was our only move.

And we had to win game three.

See, we had to win game three.

See, we didn't know that.

Yeah.

Right?

See, when you're in the series now, see, like, you knew the formula.

Yeah.

See, that's what I'm saying.

When you coming in, like, Mikael was like, go there and don't be happy just to be there.

So we win game one.

We like, oh, man, we happy.

You come back game three and it's like, I mean, you know, the kiss was a kiss, but it wasn't really a kiss.

It was like, it was like, you know, you know what I got to do, right?

You got to do it.

But I ain't understand.

I'm like, hey, man.

And boy, y'all came out and...

Every time y'all scored, it wasn't no high-fiving.

It wasn't no nothing.

It was just like, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

And for us, the following year, it's like, OK, we learned.

Yeah.

But y'all put it on us.

Well, we had to.

We had to win that game to make sure the series went back.

Because you guys could do things we hadn't seen championship teams do.

Celtics, we knew, OK?

We knew where they were gonna be, who was gonna be down low.

They got the two-headed monster, Larry Bird out front, Kevin Parrish down low.

You know, we couldn't do nothing with Kevin McHale, you know.

He was just...

So we knew.

But you guys... Man, that bench was just... We had enough to deal with with you guys, right?

And we said, man, your bench...

firepower, athletic, running, dunking, blocking shots, Robin and Sally.

We were like, and Vinny heat up.

He said, now, we got the score the same as the starters, but then we got a brace because that bench that y'all had.

Sometimes God put us in positions and situations, and we have to figure it out ourselves, right?

That was tough.

That was a strain on our relationship.

But...

It was great because we both won, and I was happy for you when you did win.

Yeah.

Well, I was just telling them that they earned it and deserve it.

They played well, outstanding.

We just couldn't contain them.

Isaiah said from the beginning, he told me that they had started off to win the best record, and they did that, and it helped them to have a home court advantage, and they did a chance.

And then to go back to back, what you guys did to Portland, it was like, wow.

Wow.

That was crazy.

And this is what I didn't understand and now I understand now.

Our relationship is important to our community.

I'm working now.

Like, I get to see Chris Webber and Steve Smith, and I get to see them every day.

I talk to Jalen Rose, and I'm saying to myself, like,

It's bigger than us.

Yeah.

For Chris Webber and Jalen Rose, for LeBron James and Kevin Durant, this is a big moment that you and I are sharing right now.

Great point.

And I can remember us, like, you know, sitting in the hallways and everybody saying, you know, they're going to try to pull y'all apart.

You know, they're going to try to separate.

We're like, nah, we ain't going to never get separated.

Even Jackie was saying that.

Exactly.

Remember what Jackie was saying?

Exactly.

They're going to try to separate y'all, you know.

I keep hearing those conversations and I keep replaying it back.

And then now I look at what's happening in the world with...

was happening in what's still happening now in terms of social injustice right you know in our community we got mlk day coming up like you know you and i as as black men as brothers as friends like this relationship is important to all community and to all families historically because i'm sure your brother

My brother, my sister, your niece.

On and on and on.

You keep going.

Yeah, I mean, everybody's like, you know, y'all all right?

Exactly.

You know?

I mean, but it's important to everybody.

No, it really is.

And also, too, you have to remember, you and I were the leaders back then.

But I didn't know that.

Yeah, well...

We both didn't know it, but now we know it.

Just like Pat Riley used to tell me, he said, Irvin, you're not going to even know the impact and the effect that you had or enjoy the winning until after it's over.

Yeah.

And he was right.

You know, we were in the moment.

Our lives have paralleled each other.

We were leaders, even in the league.

We helped change the All-Star weekend.

We helped change a lot of different things within the league.

and now we help we helping young men understand also to social causes back then you and i were the leaders of that whatever issues they were and so what guys are doing now we were already doing yet on a it was a smaller scale we didn't have social media we didn't have all the things to blow it up but i would say to you this has been a tremendous day right

my wife my mother my father and saying i need to get back together yeah so when everybody called i said no question we're gonna do this and just to sit across from you and have those relive the moments of fun excellence working hard dreaming big because we were dreaming of moments before we were even

Who sit up at 19, 20, 21 dreaming of stuff we wanted to do, and now here we are doing it, you know?

But you are my brother.

Let me apologize to you.

If I hurt you that we haven't been together, and God is good to bring us back together.

All right?

I know, man.

It hurt me too.

Come here, man.

It's all good, baby.

Okay?

It's all good.

It's crazy.

It's one of those things, like, we had to go through, but we through it, brother.

Okay.

I'll always be here.

Oh, come on, man.

I already know.

I know.

I know.

And I'm still mad that you beat me.

You gonna be mad.

We both gonna be mad.