Was Jeffrey Epstein a Mossad agent? | If You're Listening

In news that will not surprise you at all I have spent the last week down the Jeffrey Epstein rabbit hole.

Disgraced American financier Jeffrey Epstein has been found dead.

And I've been trying to find out who this awful man really was.

Donald Trump was quoted as saying, Jeff is a terrific guy.

And I keep running into quite a surprising allegation.

He has a verified connection to Mossad.

And once you get to the was Epstein a spy thing, it's like a rabbit hole within a rabbit hole.

A full-blown mad hatter tea party.

He was a intelligence resource for someone else.

Jeffrey Epstein was working on behalf of Intel services, probably not American.

Someone has created a fake human being called Jeffrey Epstein.

In podcast land, people are demanding to know if Epstein was really a spy.

The intelligence community has had to use the courts to ensure none of Epstein's files get out.

After a week in the hole, I've found some shocking things.

There's a lot of nasty stuff down in the tunnels, but is the evidence

that all these guys are relying on conclusive.

Was he working with or for any foreign intelligence agencies?

There is no way they don't already have that answer.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't.

We'll try and find it here too.

I'm Matt Bevan and this is If You're Listening.

We're going to start this episode in the middle of last week's episode.

If you haven't watched it, go back and check it out now because it's truly bananas.

It's 1986, an Israeli named Mordecai Vanunu is in London trying to tell the world about Israel's secret nuclear weapons program.

Vanunu's photographs give a unique first-hand account of what's been going on inside Israel's nuclear reactor.

He's taken photographs inside the top secret nuclear enrichment facility and they're set to be published in the Sunday Times.

Unfortunately for him, a con man named Oscar Guerrero also has copies of his photos and is looking for a payday.

Oscar Guerrero had surfaced in London again and was trying to sell copies of Vanunu's photographs to the Sunday Mirror.

It was a race to the printer, and the Sunday Mirror, a tabloid competitor to the broadsheet Sunday Times, published Vanunu's photographs first.

But instead of writing an expose of Israel's secret nukes, they targeted Vanunu.

On the strength of Guerrero's evidence, the Mirror denounced Vanunu as a fake.

To discredit Venudu and his photos, they got experts on record saying that they could just have easily been taken inside an egg factory.

Now, why discredit the story instead of treating it like the once in a decade scoop that it really was?

In fact, why publish the photos at all if you don't think they're legitimate?

Well, that all might have had something to do with the guy who owned the Sunday Mirror.

Robert Maxwell controls a $5 billion media and communications empire based in London, but with tentacles around the world.

Robert Maxwell was famous for having significant editorial influence over his papers.

I certainly have a major say in the political line of the paper.

I certainly have a major say on the editorials.

He was a socialist firebrand and the primary rival of Rupert Murdoch, the owner of the Sunday Times.

But he's smarter than Murdoch.

First place, he's funny.

That's veteran New Yorker contributor Philip Hamburger.

He was a big fan of Robert Maxwell.

And it's easy to see why.

The guy was pretty impressive.

He built a massive publishing empire from nothing.

This is a very remarkable, obviously a very remarkable fella.

child of unemployed Czech farm workers, and he's a legitimate billionaire and God knows what else.

Well, US investigative reporter Seymour Hersh thought he knew what else.

Claims in a book by American author Seymour Hersh that the publisher had secretly worked for Israeli intelligence.

Hersh, using an exiled ex-Israeli spy as his source, reported that as soon as Venunu's pictures arrived on his desk, Maxwell reported their existence to the Israeli spy service Mossad.

And then Maxwell used his newspaper to preemptively discredit them.

Hirsch said that Maxwell had knowingly participated in an Israeli disinformation operation, something that Maxwell's critics thought aligned very well with his history.

Nothing would surprise me.

He was certainly a very active Zionist.

He was very, very involved with Israeli politics.

When Hirsch's book was published in 1991, Maxwell was unimpressed.

He was very angry.

I'm very angry about the allegations that have been made by the book by Seymour Hersh.

The revelation came at the same time Maxwell was being investigated for a number of serious financial crimes.

Being accused of connections to Mossad was the last thing he needed.

He decided to go and spend some time on his luxury yacht to get away from the swirling allegations.

He spent four days chilling at sea, but then on the fifth day... Multi-millionaire British publisher Robert Maxwell is dead.

The body of the 68-year-old tycoon was recovered off the Canary Islands near Morocco several hours after he went missing from his yacht.

Now, understandably, there have been rather a lot of conspiracy theories surrounding Robert Maxwell's death.

The most bizarre suggestion that Maxwell was killed by an Arab assassin because of alleged links to Israeli intelligence.

Killed by the Israeli Secret Service or Mossad after he tried to blackmail them into propping up his ailing business.

Despite the rumours...

Police investigators and most of the Maxwell family agreed that it was unlikely he had been murdered.

Most experts think it was either suicide, a medical episode or just an accident.

There was a good spot at the back of the boat with no guard rail where Maxwell would routinely pee into the open sea, so it's quite possible that he just slipped and fell.

Maxwell's wife thought that allegations her husband was a spy were ridiculous.

One day they make him a KGB agent, the next day he's a Mossad agent, the third day he's a CIA agent.

The poor man, I mean, he would have had a life dedicated to spying.

So was he a spy for Mossad or anyone else?

And did he just slip midstream or was he murdered?

Well, let's tune in to the ABC's AM program just after Maxwell's death to find out.

The explanation won't be believed by everyone.

One person with a different view is Ari Ben Manash.

Ari Ben Manash.

Remember that name.

Mr Ben Manash, who now lives in Sydney, describes himself as a former Israeli government agent.

Mr Ben Manash did a lot of press at the time, claiming that Maxwell was connected to Mossad and potentially murdered by them.

And there are plenty of books that back him up.

There's Seymour Hersh's book, which said that Maxwell was connected to Mossad.

There's another book claiming that Maxwell was murdered.

But the thing is, the actual primary source for the information in all of those books is Ari Ben Minash.

if you look underneath most claims about maxwell to find out where they originally came from it's almost certain to be this guy ari ben manash who is still going around doing interviews claiming maxwell was murdered the israelis did not want them to sing so i believe

the Israelis took care of him.

He's also the primary source for claims that Maxwell's daughter and her boyfriend were also connected to Mossad.

Why is that important?

Well, Maxwell and his daughter were close.

So close, in fact, that he decided to name his luxury yacht after her, the Lady Ghislaine.

Robert Maxwell's favourite daughter, Ghislaine Maxwell, was, according to Ben Minash at least, a Mossad agent.

Here she is talking to the press on board her namesake yacht just after her father's death.

I want also to thank the press for their courtesy and consideration to my mother and to us.

at this time, which we appreciate very much.

Ghislaine Maxwell's partner at the time and for the following three decades was Jeffrey Epstein.

But any connection that any of them have with Mossad is pretty much just based on the word of one guy, Ari Ben Menash.

A single source who has made a lot of wild and unprovable claims.

Can you point to any hard evidence that's in the public domain to back up these claims?

I believe there is some evidence that is...

that is going to be released.

He said that 34 years ago and there's still no hard evidence.

As I would have learned in journalism school if I had ever enrolled in journalism school, a single source does not make a fact.

So let's go searching for a second source.

Please state your full name.

Jeffrey Edward Epstein and my residence address is 6100 Red Hook Boulevard in Virgin Islands.

This is a sworn deposition, by the way.

Have you ever been convicted of a crime?

Yes.

What was the crime of which you were convicted?

Two counts, one soliciting prostitution and procuring a minor for prostitution.

This conviction was the result of a deal struck with prosecutors that was presented to Epstein to sign on the 24th of September 2007, following two years of investigation.

It allowed Epstein to plead guilty to those two crimes instead of facing trial for a multitude of accusations.

Epstein would need to register as a sex offender and serve 18 months in county jail.

That being said... And is it seven days a week that you're out on work release?

No, sir.

How many days a week are you out on work release?

Six.

And of those six days, how many hours per day are you out on work release?

Twelve.

So he was basically only in jail to sleep.

This deal Epstein signed to kind of go to jail for 18 months was later described in a Department of Justice investigation as an example of poor judgment by the prosecutor who organised it, US Attorney Alex Acosta.

Why?

Well, let's just whip through what Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell had been up to since Robert Maxwell's death.

Ghislaine Maxwell was rich and connected.

Jeffrey Epstein had extreme wealth and powerful friends.

Epstein made his fortune on Wall Street as a money manager for wealthy clients like Victoria's secret owner, Les Wexner.

He was very good at networking.

He was very good at getting in front of people in power of influence and then finding a way to compromise them so that he potentially had something to hold against them.

Epstein used to record the behaviours that went on on his island and therefore there probably are tapes around.

His contact list was extraordinary.

It's a who's who of global power and fame, including Prince Andrew, singer Michael Jackson and magician David Copperfield.

Bill Clinton took four trips on Epstein's private jet and Donald Trump called him a terrific guy.

Video shows the pair partying at his Mar-a-Lago resort in 1992.

Epstein's Palm Beach house was five minutes drive from Mar-a-Lago.

He and Trump were close friends for more than a decade.

In 2005, teenage girls in Florida began reporting to police that they were being hired by Ghislaine Maxwell under the pretense that they would come to Epstein's Palm Beach house to give him massages.

But then they were sexually assaulted.

They said they were paid afterwards and told that they could make more money by sending more girls to Epstein.

Then in 2006, Epstein was arrested.

Police allege he paid underage girls for sex and found hidden cameras in his home and photographic evidence of his crimes.

A plea deal allegedly shut down a broader FBI investigation, with Epstein pleading guilty to charges of procuring girls under 18 for prostitution.

The plea deal has been referred to by advocates for the victims and the victims themselves as being a sweetheart deal or the deal of the century.

So how was Epstein able to get a deal so light it was described as poor judgment on the part of the prosecutor?

Well, that prosecutor, Alex Acosta, was nominated by Donald Trump to be the Labor Secretary in 2017.

As part of that process, he was interviewed by Trump officials to find out if there were any skeletons in his closet.

Daily Beast journalist Vicki Ward looked into whether he was asked about Epstein.

And here's what she said about that on Megyn Kelly's show last month.

I was told directly by someone in the Trump transition who had met with Alex Acosta in the transition and asked if the issue of Jeffrey Epstein would be a roadblock or a problem for his confirmation.

And the answer came back, no, I was told Epstein belonged to intelligence and they moved

Epstein belonged to intelligence.

For many people, this is the smoking gun.

He said that he was told to back off of Epstein.

He was told that Epstein belonged to intelligence.

She says here he was told, she was told he belonged to intelligence and to let it go.

Alex Acosta, a Florida prosecutor, declared him to be, said that he belonged to intelligence.

once i came across the acosta quote the famous acosta quote about like leave him alone he belongs to intelligence duh um don't know how else you interpret that that's what alex acosta the prosecutor says that he was told about what he should do with the jeffrey like leave him alone because he's intelligent well there were we're just kind of the conversation just like ended like we know now if the prosecutor says the federal prosecutor in florida says that then i think we can assume that that's true

But can we really assume that that's true?

Were you ever made aware at any point in your handling of this case if Mr. Epstein was an intelligence asset of some sort?

When Acosta was asked about this, he waffled on for a little bit before saying, I would hesitate to take this reporting as fact.

He was a bit clearer when the Justice Department called him up, denying outright that he had ever been told that Epstein was an intelligence asset.

So where did the story come from?

Did he make that story up in his transition interview?

Or did the person he talked to lie to Vicki Ward about it?

Or did he lie to the Justice Department?

Somebody lied, but we don't really know who.

The Justice Department said that none of the people they spoke to had any evidence that Epstein was an intelligence asset.

And they found no evidence that Epstein got any special treatment or had leverage over anyone.

Costa just had poor judgment and that's why Epstein got a light sentence.

There are lots of very, very long podcasts you can listen to where people spend two or three hours telling you that Jeffrey Epstein was a spy.

Someone has created a fake human being called Jeffrey Epstein.

You start to see a pattern that's very much in line with what an intelligence operation looks like.

Jeffrey Epstein was working on behalf of Intel Services, probably not American.

You know, there's this missing fortune of Robert Maxwell and this fortune of Jeffrey Epstein that we can't explain.

Are those the same fortune?

So Maxwell's dad was an Israeli spy.

Yes.

But his daughter was running logistics for Jeffrey Epstein.

For Jeffrey Epstein, yes.

By the way, every single person in Washington, D.C. thinks that.

I've never met anyone who doesn't think that.

And of course, that question has been asked to the government of Israel, and their answer is, we're not going to tell you.

And while I'll admit it's definitely an enticing rabbit hole, having dug into it, I can tell you that those stories are built on two quite flimsy foundation stones.

Ari Ben-Manash has never presented any hard evidence that Robert Maxwell, Ghislaine Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein are spies.

Meanwhile, Alex Acosta steadfastly denies ever being told that Epstein belongs to intelligence.

The rest of the evidence is very circumstantial.

Epstein working with someone's father or an ex-Israeli prime minister flying on Epstein's plane.

Last year we did an episode about why Americans are so quick to reach for conspiracy theories involving spy agencies when something crazy happens like an assassination or in this case Jeffrey Epstein's death in custody.

Even when there's not really a lot of evidence that the conspiracy theory is true.

And the conclusion we came to is that it's because the government really does do crazy stuff sometimes and they really do keep secrets about things.

But in this case, I think we can add, sometimes people spread conspiracy theories because the story that is the most likely explanation is inconvenient.

Since taking office, Donald Trump has gone to great lengths to undermine the importance of these so-called Epstein files and prevent their release.

He's dead for a long time.

Really only pretty bad people, including fake news, want to keep something like that going.

So is it more likely that Donald Trump is refusing to release the Epstein files to protect Mossad?

Or is he doing it to protect himself?